Eternal Fire, the Sun, and Solar Flares (Why Eternal Fire does not Mean Eternal Torment)

I used to believe that those who are not saved by faith in Christ would be tormented forever in hell. I now believe instead that they will perish (John 3:16), have their bodies and souls destroyed (Matthew 10:28), and be burned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). I changed my view as a result of in depth study of all the Bible says on this topic. The more I study this, the more evidence I find in favor of conditional immortality (aka annihilationism). I have found that most of the Bible passages that people think point to eternal torment, when studied in the context of God’s Word, actually provide better support for conditional immortality. This is true for the three passages that mention eternal fire:

CSB17 Matt. 18:8  If your hand or your foot causes you to fall away, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire.

CSB17 Matt. 25:41 "Then he will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

CSB17 Jude 1:7  Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns committed sexual immorality and perversions, and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Traditionalists who believe in eternal conscious torment see the phrase “eternal fire” and they reason that since the unrighteous are thrown into an eternal fire it means that they are consciously tormented forever. None of the verses that mention eternal fire actually say this. A bigger problem is the ashes . . .

Turned to Ashes

Jude tells us that Sodom and Gomorrah are an example of punishment by eternal fire. Peter also points to Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly, but he specifically points to the fact that they were turned to ashes:

^CSB17 2 Peter 2:6 and if he reduced the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes and condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is coming to the ungodly; (2 Pet. 2:6 CSB17)

Peter’s warning is consistent with the warning from John the Baptist that the unsaved will be burned up like chaff (Matthew 3:12), and from Jesus that they will be burned up like weeds (Matthew 13:30). Both John and Jesus use a word for “burned up” that refers to burning something up completely (see a discussion of this in my post, Downburned and Ashified, the Annihilation of the Unrighteous). Before John the Baptist, Malachi had foreseen that the wicked, “will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts” (Malachi 4:3). The author of Hebrews points to this same truth when he writes, “of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God” (Hebrews 10:26).

This raises a question. If the unsaved are burned to ashes, why is the fire that destroys them called eternal fire? Why should the fire last forever if those destroyed by it do not? The Bible does not explicitly answer these questions. However, the Bible does say more about God and His fire, and this will point us to a likely explanation that makes good sense out of both a literal eternal fire and literal burning to ashes.

God is fiery, like the sun

In our present, fallen state, no one is able to fully and directly see God in all His glory. But occasionally, people in the Bible are given glimpses of God’s glory. In these visions of glory, God is seen as being incredibly bright, fiery, and glowing.

When God comes down in glory on Mount Sinai, we read, “Mount Sinai was completely enveloped in smoke because the LORD came down on it in fire. Its smoke went up like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain shook violently” (Exodus 19:18 CSB17).

When Ezekiel saw a vision of God approaching, he described it this way, “I looked, and there was a whirlwind coming from the north, a huge cloud with fire flashing back and forth and brilliant light all around it. In the center of the fire, there was a gleam like amber” (Ezek. 1:4 CSB17). When he sees more detail, he describes his vision of the Lord this way:

From what seemed to be his waist up, I saw a gleam like amber, with what looked like fire enclosing it all around. From what seemed to be his waist down, I also saw what looked like fire. There was a brilliant light all around him. The appearance of the brilliant light all around was like that of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day. This was the appearance of the likeness of the LORD 's glory. When I saw it, I fell facedown and heard a voice speaking. (Ezekiel 1:27-28 CSB17)

When Jesus is transformed in front of Peter, James, and John, “his face shone like the sun” (Matt. 17:2 CSB17) and when John sees the glorified Lord in a vision, “his face was shining like the sun at full strength” (Rev. 1:16 CSB17). Paul experienced something similar (Acts 26:13). Isaiah goes so far as to say that the glory of the Lord is so bright and beautiful, that by comparison “The moon will be put to shame and the sun disgraced, because the LORD of Armies will reign as king on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and he will display his glory in the presence of his elders” (Isa. 24:23 CSB17).

Of course, God is not simply fire, but there is something about His glory that is consistently manifested as a bright, super intense, glorious, burning fire. While this fiery aspect of God is glorious, it is also deadly to all evil. The Bible does not merely say that God consumes evil with fire, it says that God is a consuming fire (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29, and see also Exodus 24:17,  Deuteronomy 9:3, and Isaiah 33:14). This brings us to the next important piece of the puzzle.

Fire from God Destroys Evil

In the following verses, we see a consistent pattern of “fire from the Lord” and the “fire of God” coming from Him and consuming his enemies:

^ESV Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven.

CSB17 Numbers 11:1 Now the people began complaining openly before the LORD about hardship. When the LORD heard, his anger burned, and fire from the LORD blazed among them and consumed the outskirts of the camp.

CSB17 Numbers 16:35 Fire also came out from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were presenting the incense.

CSB17 Leviticus 10:2 Then fire came from the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.

ESV 2 Kings 1:12 But Elijah answered them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.

Daniel is given a vision of a similar fate that awaits “the beast” who opposed God’s people:

A river of fire was flowing, coming out from his presence. Thousands upon thousands served him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was convened, and the books were opened. I watched, then, because of the sound of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued watching, the beast was killed and its body destroyed and given over to the burning fire.  (Daniel 7:10-11 CSB17)

Putting it All Together

The concepts of eternal fire and being burned to ashes, both found in Scripture referring to the final fate of the unrighteous, can now be harmonized. The eternal fire is the fire associated with God’s glory. It is eternal because God is eternal, and His glory is eternal. This eternal fire can be compared to the sun. This glorious fire becomes destructive and consumes evil when God directs His holy, fiery wrath towards His enemies who have rejected Him. These eruptions of fiery wrath can be compared to solar flares. The sun gives life and light. Solar flares are destructive. The sun is long lasting. Any given solar flare is short-lived. Likewise, God’s fiery glory is eternal, but His fiery wrath is expressed “in the day of wrath” (Romans 2:5 see my post on this verse, The Day of Wrath). This explains why Jude can speak of Sodom and Gomorrah “undergoing the punishment of eternal fire” even though no fire is burning today where Sodom and Gomorrah used to be. The eruption of fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was short lived, but the eternal source of that fire is our God, who is a consuming fire.

Can anyone hope to “dwell with ever-burning flames" (Isaiah 33:14)? The answer is yes, but only for those who are made righteous by faith in Christ. One day we will be transformed and nothing sinful or evil will be left in us. On that day we will be able to gaze unhindered on the blazing glory of God and not be consumed. Thank God for His amazing grace!

Further Study and Resources

I’m not the first to look at this issue or reach this conclusion. For example, Peter Grice wrote, “Fire from heaven—the consuming fire of God—may be considered eternal at its source, without this meaning that any manifestation or emanation of it must continue to burn forever” (in Annihilation in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 (Part 1): Destroyed by the Glory of His ManifestPresence).

The issue of “eternal fire” is part of a larger discussion on the nature of hell. I’ve written quite a few posts and posted a few videos on this topic. You may find a list of these posts and videos, with brief descriptions, here:  Mark’s Resources on Hell.

Hebrews 13:16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others . . .

Literal Hell: the problems with depending on a plain, literal meaning of two passages in Revelation to defend eternal torment

One of the main reasons that Christians believe in the doctrine of eternal conscious torment is that  they read two passages in Revelation as having a plain, literal meaning. This common error was illustrated in a recent Stand to Reason podcast by Greg Koukl. With respect to the two passages in question, Greg referred to:

“the plain language of the text” (12:30)

“the plain straightforward common sense of Revelation” (18:10)

“the natural and obvious understanding of what I just read” (21:05)

The two passages

The two passages being referred to are Revelation 14:9-11 and Revelation 20:10-15. Each of these passages contain a verse where the literal meaning either implies or directly refers to eternal torment:

CSB17 Revelation 14:11 and the smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or anyone who receives the mark of its name.

CSB17 Revelation 20:10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

These are the ONLY two verses in the Bible which either strongly imply (Revelation 14:11) or explicitly mention (Revelation 20:10) eternal torment. Since every verse in the Bible is true, why shouldn’t we all embrace eternal torment based on a simple, literal reading of these verses?

Three problems with basing our view of hell on a literal reading of two verses in Revelation

1. The verses occur in symbolic visions.

In a sense, I do believe Revelation 14:11 and Revelation 20:10 are literal. I believe these verses record things that John actually saw and heard in his visions. But these visions do not, in general, work like a video sent back from the future. Rather, they use symbols and images to communicate truth. Some of the imagery is bizarre and shocking. For example:

* A dragon stood in front of a woman about to give birth because it wanted to eat her child (Revelation 12:4). Do I believe something like that literally did or will happen? No. In his vision, John saw a literal dragon wanting to eat a baby, but in real life there is not a literal dragon (the dragon is a symbol for Satan).

* A prostitute who was drunk from drinking the blood of Christians was seen riding on top of a beast with seven heads. Do I believe anyone will ever literally see this in real life? No. In his vision, John did see a literal drunk-with-blood prostitute on a literal seven headed monster. But the prostitute and the beast she was riding are symbols. They are shocking and bizarre symbols.

* Likewise, John sees scenes where smoke is rising forever from torment and where the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are tormented forever in a lake of fire. In his vision, he literally sees these things. That doesn’t mean these things will literally happen in real life. They are shocking, bizarre symbols.

Evangelical scholars recognize that the book of Revelation is a book that uses symbols to communicate truth. Here are quotes from two of the top evangelical commentaries on Revelation:

Robert Mounce wrote:

This should warn the reader not to expect a literal presentation of future history, but a symbolic portrayal of that which must yet take place.  It is important for an adequate understanding of Revelation to remember that God is communicating his message by means of visions that are symbolic rather than literal. (Mounce, The Book of Revelation, Revised Edition, 1997, pg. 42).

G. K. Beale wrote:

In this light the dictum of the popular approach to Revelation – “interpret literally unless you are forced to interpret symbolically” – should be turned on its head.  Instead, the programmatic statement about the book’s precise mode of communication in 1:1 is that the warp and woof of it is symbolic, so that the preceding dictum should be reversed to say “interpret symbolically unless you are forced to interpret literally.”  Better put, the reader is to expect that the main means of divine revelation in this book is symbolic. (Beale, Revelation, A Shorter Commentary, 2015, pg. 12).

Thus, when a well-intentioned Bible teacher like Greg Koukl appeals to “the plain straightforward common sense of Revelation,” we should realize that his method of interpreting Revelation may be fundamentally flawed. Much of the Bible can and should be read in a plain straightforward common sense way. Revelation is not like that.

2. Revelation itself provides a plain, literal interpretation of the lake of fire and that interpretation is consistent with annihilationism.

The complexity of Revelation and its apocalyptic symbols can be seen by how many different interpretations there are for many of the symbols. However, there are several symbols where everyone pretty much agrees on the interpretation. How does that happen? That happens when John is given, and then passes on to us, the literal meaning of something he sees in one of his visions. For example, John sees bowls filled with incense. Everyone knows that the incense is a symbol for the prayers of God’s people. We know this because John wrote, “Each one had a harp and golden bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints” (Rev. 5:8 CSB17).

Imagine how crazy it would be if some sincere but misguided Bible teacher got the symbolism of the incense and prayer backwards. The confused teacher thought that John was telling us through the book of Revelation that prayer was actually incense. Revelation is the final book of the Bible and so that settles it. Whenever the rest of the Bible talks about prayer, it actually is talking about burning incense. So when Paul instructs us to, “Devote yourselves to prayer” (Colossians 4:2) he means we should all be devoted to burning incense in bowls. If a Bible teacher tried to teach us that, we would rightly dismiss him as confused. Tragically, something very similar to this is happening with the lake of fire.

Twice John tells us what the lake of fire, which he sees in his symbol-filled apocalyptic visions, refers to.  He tells us what it literally means:

“This is the second death, the lake of fire”(Rev. 20:14b CSB17).

“. . . their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Rev. 21:8 CSB17).

Now, it’s time to talk about “the plain language of the text.” The lake of fire is a symbol (like the golden bowls of incense). What it really means is that the unrighteous will die a second time. Dead people can’t continue to experience torment. They’re dead. It is wrong to take the scene of eternal torment from John’s symbol-filled visions and then use it to reinterpret “death” in passages like Romans 6:23. The existence of Romans 6:23 and other verses brings us to the third problem.

3. The plain, literal meaning of other passages supports annihilation.

Traditionalists (those who believe in eternal torment) should apply their principle of accepting the “the plain straightforward common sense” interpretation to other passages in the Bible outside of Revelation. If they did, they should quickly see that annihilation is taught. Here are just a few examples:

Verse:

The LORD God said, "Since the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not reach out, take from the tree of life, eat, and live forever." (Gen. 3:22 CSB17)

Common Sense:

God does not want, and will not allow, people to live forever in a fallen state. This rules out eternal torment!

Verse:

Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28 CSB17)

Common Sense:

Destroying both the body and soul in hell sounds a lot more like annihilation than eternal torment.

Verse:

. . . he reduced the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes and condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is coming to the ungodly (2 Pet. 2:6b CSB17)

Common Sense:

The unrighteous will eventually be reduced to ashes. Ashes can’t be tortured.

Verse:

For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16 CSB17)

Common Sense:

Only those who believe in Jesus will live forever. Immortality is conditional on faith in Christ. Other people are not immortal, and so, of course, they will perish. If someone’s uncle was captured by ISIS in a war and was imprisoned and being tortured, we would not say, “He has perished.” If the same uncle was turned to ashes by a powerful IED, then we would say, “He has perished.” It’s common sense. This common sense meaning becomes even more clear when we realize that “perish” in Greek was one of the words that Greek authors used to refer to the complete and total end of all parts of a person. In other words, the Greek word for perish, which is apollumi, was used to mean annihilation.

To some extent, whether we believe the Bible teaches annihilation or eternal torment depends on which set of verses we think should be interpreted with a literal, common sense meaning and which should be interpreted as having symbolic meaning.

Conclusion and Further Study

Yes, if you take Revelation 14:11 and 20:10 out of their literary context and read them with their plain, ordinary meaning, they would point to eternal torment. There are many verses in the Bible where, even in isolation, reading them with their plain, common sense meaning yields the best interpretation. But this does not apply to the highly symbolic visions of Revelation. Reading these two verse as literal yields meanings which are contrary to what John himself tells us the lake of fire is and which is also contrary to the plain, common sense interpretation of other passages which are found in settings where literal meanings are expected to be found.

This short blog post has just scratched the surface of this topic. Here are some resources for more in depth study:

1. Your Bible, along with Bible study tools. Look for and study in context passages discussing the final fate of the unrighteous. Don’t just look up the word “hell” (that word is not even in the book of Revelation, for example). Look up words and phrases like “perish,” “destroy/destruction,” “burn up,” “ashes,” and “die/death.” If you have the tools to do it, do a Greek word study on apollumi and the related noun apoleia.

2. To some extent, this blog post is a condensed version of a much more in depth 7-part blog series I wrote on the question: What is the 2nd Death? Many people have found that series helpful.

3.  The Rethinking Hell Website is as stuffed full of great articles and podcasts on the conditional immortality vs. eternal torment vs. universal reconciliation debate as the apocalyptic visions in Revelation are stuffed full of symbols! If you want to interact with others on this topic, consider joining the Rethinking Hell Facebook Group (you don’t have to agree with annihilationism to join, you just have to want to discuss it in a mutually respectful way). If, like me, you grew up believing in eternal torment, remember this proverb: “The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him” (Prov. 18:17 CSB17).

4. I have a list of my own blog posts and also a few YouTube videos on the topic of Hell. You may find that list here: Mark’s Resources on Hell.

5. There’s more to Revelation than the lake of fire and the second death. Despite its complexity, I love the book of Revelation. Some truths in it are crystal clear. Here are some posts on this wonderful part of the Bible:

The Book of Revelation is Practical and Applicable

The Revelation of Jesus Christ

What is Clear in Revelation

Understanding Revelation: Past, Current, and Future Fulfillment

Awesome, Wonderful, Powerful Prayer

In the Midst of the Chaos, Listen to the Music

Come out of Babylon!

May God lead us all into His truth and may His Spirit guard our unity where we disagree on the interpretation of important, but secondary, issues like the nature of hell.

Hebrews 13:16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others . . .