Tuesday, August 13, 2019

Time for Some Real “Real Talk,” a Reply to Marty Sampson of Hillsong



“Time for some real talk . . .”. That’s how Marty Sampson’s widely discussed Instagram post began (you may read Marty’s post at the bottom of this page). This past weekend Marty Sampson, who was a Christian musician and songwriter who wrote songs for Hillsong and others, announced on Instragram that he was losing his Christian faith and was happy about it. In terms of being honest and open, perhaps his post was “real talk.” But in terms of aligning with ultimate reality and truth, his post was mostly fake real talk.

If I knew Marty personally, my main concern would likely be to try to listen to him and then help renew his faith in Jesus, if possible. But I don’t know Marty, and so that’s not my concern. My concern is that in the process of losing his own faith, he chose to use some of his popularity and success as a Christian songwriter to sow doubt about God into other hearts and lead others away from Christ. Further, the types of issues he raises are issues which many Christians (and non-Christians, too) struggle with. So, my concern here is to respond to some of what he wrote with some real “real talk.”

Marty wrote:  “I am so happy now, so at peace with the world.”

Dear Christian, it’s not surprising that someone who makes peace with this dark world we live in might feel some (temporary, shallow) happiness. Afterall, the world will no longer hate you if you do that. Remember the words of Christ,

"If the world hates you, understand that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. However, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you.” - Jesus (John 15:18-19 CSB17)

It might feel nice to be at peace with the world, but making peace with the darkness leads to becoming an enemy of God. You can’t have peace with both this present evil world and with the holy God who will last forever after this world is gone. James speaks to this quite clearly:

You adulterous people! Don't you know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? So whoever wants to be the friend of the world becomes the enemy of God. (James 4:4 CSB17)

By His grace, I’m sticking with God!

Marty wrote:  “how many preachers fall? Many.”

God does not ask us to put our faith in people, not even in Christian leaders. God asks us to put our faith in Jesus. In his post, Marty talks about other Christians, but he does not even mention Jesus. When Christians we look up to fall, may we remember these words written by Paul:

This saying is trustworthy: For if we died with him, we will also live with him;
if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he will also deny us;
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
(2 Tim. 2:11-13 CSB17)

What then? If some were unfaithful, will their unfaithfulness nullify God's faithfulness?
Absolutely not! Let God be true, even though everyone is a liar, as it is written: That you may be justified in your words and triumph when you judge.
(Romans 3:3-4 CSB17)

So, the fact that many pastors fall is neither surprising nor a reason to doubt God. But there is something else to consider here. Most of the pastors and Christian leaders I know do remain faithful. And many do so despite much opposition and difficulties of many kinds. Overall, I find that the faithfulness of mature Christians and Christian leaders is a source of encouragement and strength in my walk with the Lord.

Marty wrote: “How many miracles happen? Not many.”

This is the strangest part of what Marty wrote. How many miracles would we expect if God was not real? Zero. And yet, while miracles are not as abundant as many would like, they do still occur. I have experienced several things which, even if experienced by a skeptic, are very hard to explain aside from the supernatural. If you want to read about them, I’ve shared about them here. And I’m certainly not the only one. For example, around the world there are many reports of Muslims coming to faith in Christ in part because of dreams they’ve had of Jesus. Many of these Muslims face grave dangers and sufferings of many kinds as a result of choosing to follow Christ.

For myself, and for many others, far from being a reason to doubt Christianity, supernatural signs  confirmed and strengthen our faith in God. But even if God does not give a person any new miracles, the miracles in God’s Word should be enough to lead us to faith in Christ.

Marty wrote:  “Why is the Bible full of contradictions?”

I don’t believe the Bible has any actual contradictions. There are reasonable explanations for each alleged contradiction. But even if one thinks that some of the problem passages contain actual contradictions, the issues involved in these contradictions are minor details and involve secondary issues. What impresses me is the wonderful, deep harmony the Bible shows on all the major points of Christian doctrine. There is no passage that contradicts these truths and many that confirm them:

* God created everything.
* People have sinned against God and as a result deserve death, not eternal life.
* God sent His Son, Jesus, to save us from our sins.
* Jesus did many miracles and taught God’s truth.
* Jesus died for our sins.
* Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to many people after His resurrection.
* Faith in Jesus is the only way God offers for people to be saved.
* Jesus is coming back.
* God will raise everyone back to life.
* Those who are in Christ will live forever with Him in a world without pain, suffering, or sin.
* All others will perish.

Marty wrote:  “How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it.”

Marty is far from the first person to list hell as part of their reason for rejecting Christianity (I’ve written about this here). It is nearly certain that what bothers Marty is not the idea of hell in general, but more specifically the traditional teaching that God will torment the unsaved in hell forever. I can see why the doctrine of eternal torment disturbs many people, but Marty is wrong to say that no one is talking about it. Did he care so little about his relationship with Jesus that he didn’t even take time to use a simple tool like Google to seek answers to some of the things that were bothering him? If he had, he would have found that lots of Christians are talking about the problem of hell (and all the other problems he mentions). I’m part of a group called Rethinking Hell (you can join our Facebook group here, and so can Marty). The leaders of our group are evangelical Christians who have studied in depth all that the Bible says about the final fate of the unrighteous. We have become convinced that the Bible never did teach eternal torment. Instead it teaches that God will destroy the bodies and souls of unbelievers in hell (Matthew 10:28), that they will not live forever but will perish (John 3:16), and that they will be burned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). I’ve written blog posts and produced videos on this important topic myself. You can find a list of resource on the nature of hell here.

Marty wrote:  “Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion.”

Wow. Just the opposite is true. Especially in the last sixty years or so science has been providing more and more evidence that there must be a very great, super-intelligent, ancient Creator who established the very laws of physics, caused the universe to begin, and is responsible for life and all its beauty and diversity. I have stacks of books on this topic, and there are many excellent videos online. I’ve always been interested in science (before being called into full time ministry, I served as an officer in the engineering department of nuclear submarines for five years) and I’ve written some on this myself. Here are my own blog posts on this, and some of these posts contain links to much more material:



How the Sun Glorifies the Sun

Excited both as a Science Geek and a God Worshiper (discusses how the smallest cells possible give BIG evidence for God)


Marty wrote:  “Christianity just seems to me like another religion”

That’s just crazy. I’m not an expert on all other religions, but I happen to know quite a bit about the world’s second largest religion, Islam. It’s not merely that I’ve read the Quran, some of the Hadith, and books on Islam. I lived with my family in a Muslim majority nation for fourteen years. I had, and still have, many close friends who are Muslims. I spent many, many hours discussing religion with them. I love and respect my Muslim friends, but Islam is nothing like Christianity. And neither is any other religion.

Again, it is telling that Marty did not mention Jesus in his post. Jesus is what makes Christianity different and better. No other religion has a Savior like Him! And no other religion has records of multiple reliable eyewitnesses seeing their Savior rise from the dead. And no other religion has had the same positive influence wherever it has spread and been widely accepted.

Marty’s statement is quite frankly an insult to the many Muslims (and others) who have suffered in many ways as a result of becoming followers of Jesus. I’ve known some of these people (I share some stories here and here). These courageous Christians would not have left the teachings of Islam and become followers of Jesus if Christianity was like other religions. It’s time to get really real.

Finally, Marty wrote:  “Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.”

Yes, the sun will come up tomorrow because God designed it that way. But there is no guarantee for Marty or me or you that the sun will come up for us tomorrow. We don’t know what day will be our last. And then we face God’s judgment. These issues are far too serious to be treated the way Marty has treated them. My problem with Marty’s post was not that it was too “real,” but that it was not nearly real enough. There are good answers, well-researched answers, that God has provided through Christians to all of Marty’s concerns. If he took time to seek these answers, that it is not at all evident through what he wrote. I pray that God will help Marty and others to find and hold on to His truth, the only real truth.


Hebrews 13:16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others . . .



The following is the text of Marty’s Instagram message.


Time for some real talk… I’m genuinely losing my faith.. and it doesn’t bother me… like, what bothers me now is nothing… I am so happy now, so at peace with the world.. it’s crazy / this is a soapbox moment so here I go xx how many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgemental people on the planet – they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people… but it’s not for me. I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others. All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point… I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

2 comments:

  1. stumbled on your blogspot while reading the comments to the skillet response to christians leaving the faith. I look forward to reading your blogs. Thanks!

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  2. Thanks Ms.Kendi for pointing out the fact that leaving the church doesn't necessarily mean leaving God. This was really a great point to appreciated.

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