Based on broad and deep evidence from the Bible, I’m convinced that the doctrine of conditional
immortality is true. The doctrine of conditional immortality states that people
will only live forever if they are saved by God through faith in Christ. The
flip side is that those who are not saved will not live forever – their bodies
and souls will be destroyed (Matthew 10:28), they will perish (John 3:16), and
they will be turned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). Among evangelicals the main
alternative to belief in conditional immortality is the belief that after the final judgment the unsaved with
live in eternal conscious torment.
Not only do I believe that the doctrine of conditional
immortality has far better biblical support than the doctrine of eternal
torment, I also believe that the doctrine of conditional immortality allows us
to give far better answers to some of the tough questions that people ask about
Christianity. An example of this can be seen by thinking about a tough question
that was asked in yesterday’s “Ask Pastor John” video.
Before I press on to explain how conditional immortality provides
a better answer than the one that pastor John Piper gave in the video, I want
to say something about John Piper and the ministry of Desiring God. I thank God
for John Piper and the ministry he leads. Over a period of more than 25 years I
have very often been blessed by his ministry. Piper has helped to equip, encourage, challenge, and strengthen
me to do the work God has called me to do. The fact that occasionally Piper
teaches something that I don’t agree with does not diminish how much I value
his ministry overall. I have often recommended his resources to others and expect
to continue doing so. Now back to the tough question.
The Question
Here is the question from a listener named Lisa that John
Piper tries to answer:
“There is certainly great evil in the world, such as war, rape, murder, racism, oppression, etc. But the majority of the world doesn’t need God to see these things as evil or to make a positive change. I certainly don’t see how someone innocent, dying a horrible death, somehow makes my wrongs right in the sight of God. Can you help me make sense of this seemingly twisted justice and come to understand why I need Jesus?”
Lisa’s question is complex. Her question involves issues
about how serious our sin is, what type of punishment we deserve, and how Jesus
dying on the cross makes sense as a way to save us. A lot of big issues are interwoven
together in her question. In a thirteen minute video, all these issues cannot
be addressed in depth. I think Piper’s strategy of focusing on one element of
her question is reasonable. However, the way he reframes Lisa’s question makes
it much more difficult to answer than it needs to be.
The title of the episode in question is “Are Hell and the
Cross Overkill for Sin?” If you go back and look at Lisa’s question you’ll see
that she does allude to the cross when she writes, “someone innocent, dying a
horrible death.” In the context of her question, the innocent person she is
referring to is Jesus. However, Lisa never mentions hell. She never mentions
eternal torment or flames. Yet Piper frames his response in terms of attempting to explain why people
deserve infinite punishment (eternal conscious torment).
What did Lisa say that might have prompted Piper to try to
offer a justification for eternal torment? My best guess is it is based on Lisa
saying, “I don’t consider my thoughts and actions to be
so terrible that they need to be punished by death.” Since the Bible says that
the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), Lisa has stated her question using
biblical language. Piper, however, seems to make the following assumption:
death = eternal conscious torment
To me, that’s not at all
obvious. The normal definition of death is certainly not to be in torment. Our
wide-spread, universal, consistent experience with death is that any dead body
we see is not conscious. Piper’s (wrong) assumption makes it far more difficult
to provide a good answer to Lisa’s question. An advantage of the doctrine of
conditional immortality is that it allows us to interpret multiple biblical
words and phrases as having their normal, literal meaning: death means death,
perish means perish, being turned to ashes really means be turned to ashes, and
eternal life refers literally to living forever which logically entails the
simple conclusion that those who don’t have eternal life won’t live forever
(and thus cannot be tortured forever).
Before I give an answer to
Lisa’s question from the viewpoint of conditional immortality (where death
retains it’s normal, every day meaning), let’s look at Piper’s attempt to
justify eternal torment as a punishment for the unsaved.
Two Big Problems with the “Sins Against an Infinite God Deserve Infinite Punishment” Argument
I agree with some of what Piper writes. For example, I think Piper
is correct to point out that sins against God such as failure to worship, love,
and obey Him are very serious sins. After all, Jesus did rank the two most
important commandments, and #1 is the command to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all
your mind, and with all your strength” (Mk. 12:30 CSB17). The second most
important commandment is to love other people as we love ourselves. In my
experience it is true that when people think about sins, they often exclusively
think about the types of sins that violate the second most important
commandment while neglecting to consider the sins that most directly violate
the even more important commandment to love God. As with so much of Piper’s
teaching, he expresses this truth powerfully, clearly, and helpfully. So far,
so good.
At one point Piper engages in a thought experiment.
He suggests that even if Lisa were to be a super successful Hitler and commit
genocide against most of the world’s population, she still would not deserve
infinite punishment. She would deserve a whole lot of punishment, but not
infinite punishment, because as terrible as such a sin would be, it still would
be finite. I agree with Piper about this.
Then Piper goes on to basically argue that
sinning against God is different because “God is of infinite value,
infinite beauty, infinite greatness.” As a result, Piper argues, sinning
against God does make us worthy of infinite punishment. This argument might
sound good on the surface, but it has two fatal flaws.
Imagine that a robber stole money from two people. One of
the people he stole from had $100 and the other had an infinite number of
dollars. If he stole all their money, it might make sense to say that justice
would call for the robber to pay back $100 to the first person and to pay back an
infinite number of dollars to the second person. But what if the robber didn’t
steal all the money from these people?
What if he only stole a limited amount from each? Let’s say he stole $50 from
each of them. Would he owe the second person an infinite number of dollars? Of
course, not. Even if the second person owned an infinite number of dollars, the
seriousness of the crime is based on how much was stolen, not how much the
victim owned.
When a person fails to value God, they certainly do not
rob God of all His value. When a person fails to glorify God, they do not cause
God to lose an infinite amount of glory. The damage they cause is limited and
finite. No person has caused God infinite loss or infinite suffering or eternal
torment or anything remotely close to that. So why should we think they deserve
infinite punishment? Their sin may be much more serious than they think it is,
but it is not infinite. This is the first fatal flaw in Piper’s argument. This
flaw seems to me to completely undermine his reasoning. Yet the second flaw
presents an even more serious problem.
Concerning the nature of our sin and how serious it is
and what punishment it deserves, Piper writes, “We must learn it from the
Bible.” With one caveat (which I’ll mention shortly), I agree! The problem is
the Bible never uses the type of logic that Piper uses to justify eternal
torment. The Bible never says that because God is infinite, we deserve infinite
punishment for sins against Him. And the Bible does not teach that the unsaved
will be sentenced to eternal conscious torment. The Bible teaches that the
wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) and that the unrighteous will perish (John
3:16). Interestingly, the Bible also teaches that as part of general revelation
all people have a God-given conscious that informs us of the penalty that we
deserve for rejecting God and committing many sins. And what is that penalty?
Read for yourselves:
CSB17 Romans 1:32 Although they know God's just
sentence-- that those who practice such things deserve to die-- they not only
do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
So, both the Bible and our God-given conscious instructs
us that our sins deserve death, not that our sins deserve eternal conscious
torment.
Answering Lisa’s Question from the Perspective of
Conditional Immortality
If Lisa had asked me the same question she
asked Pastor John, I would first affirm that she was using biblical language
when she questioned whether she deserved death. I would explain that “death,”
with it’s normal every day meaning of the cessation of life (which includes the
loss of consciousness), is exactly what the Bible teaches the unrighteous
deserve. If she was confusing “death” with “eternal torment,” I would patiently
go through the massive amount of biblical evidence that shows the final fate of the
unrighteous is to perish completely and permanently. Some people call this fate
annihilation.
I would then ask if Lisa thinks her life is
so good that she deserves to live forever. Most people don’t think that. If she
acknowledged that she does not deserve to live forever, than she has
acknowledged that she deserves exactly what the Bible says she deserves: to
perish permanently. If she thought that based on her conduct in the world perhaps
she did deserve to live forever, I would point out that God wants a future,
eternal world where there is no more pain or tears or sadness at all and that
if he allowed that world to be filled with people who sin like her and I do
there would be some amount of sadness. God is not wrong to want a world filled
with people experiencing perfect joy, and so He is not wrong to end the life of
people who reject His offer of forgiveness and transformation through Christ
that would make them fit for such a world. God doesn’t owe us continuing life. Life
is a gracious gift. Eternal life is a gift God graciously gives to us through
Christ. That’s not wrong or cruel or unfair.
And what about Cross? On the cross Jesus
takes our place and suffers for our sins. He suffers exactly what we deserve:
death. The fact that the process leading up to His death was a very painful one
does indicate that our sins are indeed more serious than we often realize. But
the end result is death. However, Jesus overcame death and rose again to
eternal life. Those of us who trust in Him will likewise be raised immortal.
Lisa also asked why God used the mechanism of
sacrificing His innocent Son to save us. This method of saving us demonstrates
both God’s justice and His amazing love. I personally can’t imagine a way of
saving us that would more powerfully demonstrate full justice and mind-blowing,
amazing love all at the same time. I don’t know for sure if God HAD TO save us
this way. What I can say with confidence is that the method He used is good,
and beautiful, and wonderful, and has moved countless millions, including
myself, to worship Him. And it is the only way He now offers for our salvation
(John 14:6, Acts 4:12).
Conclusion
Many people have stumbled over the doctrine of eternal torment. It is a major reason that some have rejected Christianity altogether. Others have
attempted to remain Christian while jettisoning their confidence in the Bible
as being completely true and trustworthy. This is all so tragic and
unnecessary. The Bible doesn’t even teach the doctrine of eternal torment. The
Bible teaches conditional immortality. And conditional immortality is a
doctrine that can provide good answers to tough questions.
Further Resources for Reading and Study:
The Bible! (please be a Berean and study the Bible for yourself to
see if what I have written is true!)
A previous blog post where I responded to another time when John
Piper defended eternal torment:
A website where you can find lots of podcasts, blog posts, and
other resources on the topic of hell (including a few I have written):
I have collected a list of all my material related to the topic of
hell here:
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