tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post3563140818709881588..comments2023-12-16T07:12:26.233-08:00Comments on parresiazomai: What is the Second Death? Part 1, Symbols and MeaningsMark Corbetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11845358650245441477noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-33450111658165890552021-09-06T08:22:58.587-07:002021-09-06T08:22:58.587-07:00I don't know why Mounce and Beale don't se...I don't know why Mounce and Beale don't seem to follow the logical implications of their own interpretive approaches when it comes to the meaning Rev 14:9-11 and Rev 20. In general, people may be influenced by things like the fact that the majority of evangelical Christians (who would be the main audience for their commentaries) hold the eternal torment view. Also, many people, even Christians who study and teach the Bible a lot, have not take time to carefully study the best arguments for and against conditional immortality. But I don't know if these type of issues have influenced either Mounce or Beale. Overall, I find their commentaries to be very helpful and I recommend them for people studying Revelation.Mark Corbetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11845358650245441477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-22693683493122309282021-09-06T04:16:59.656-07:002021-09-06T04:16:59.656-07:00Thank you, Mark, for providing this great resource...Thank you, Mark, for providing this great resource. It not only helps me understand this subject matter, but it is also something to share with others who get stuck with Rev. 14:9-11, Rev. 20:10, and the meaning of death. Your thorough, detailed coverage of the material and your tight logic will be hard to ignore or refute.<br /><br />One question: Why do you think Mounce and Beale seem to ignore their interpretive approach (apocalyptic symbolic imager) when it comes to Rev. 14:9-11 and Rev. 20:10 — and conclude with an ECT interpretation.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16104119760990711466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-53106582003969220642020-12-29T06:29:40.987-08:002020-12-29T06:29:40.987-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.jamie greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04463091289785474295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-47486606153568777642020-12-28T15:59:29.602-08:002020-12-28T15:59:29.602-08:00Jamie, thanks for sharing your thoughts and questi...Jamie, thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. You bring up a lot of issues. Can we try to work through them one at a time. I don’t know that I can answer all your questions, but I will try to help as much as I can. I just prayed for you (and for me, too!). Let’s begin with the first thing you mentioned. You mentioned the phrase “have their part.” I think you are likely referring to Revelation 21:8 where the KJV has the words “have their part,” and the ESV has essentially the same meaning in slightly different words (“their portion will be”):<br /><br />ESV Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."<br /><br />Is this the verse you are referring to? If so, what about this verse concerns you?<br />Mark Corbetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11845358650245441477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-13066698645138338542020-12-28T14:16:53.722-08:002020-12-28T14:16:53.722-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.jamie greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04463091289785474295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-13908044712603716752020-10-19T15:09:29.425-07:002020-10-19T15:09:29.425-07:00This verse says that the devil, beast and false pr...This verse says that the devil, beast and false prophet are tormented forever and ever, not humans. The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels and they will be tormented eternally. But, though Christ-rejecters will be cast there they will be annihilated randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03866652269809664469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-45979045005803054992020-05-30T23:48:03.619-07:002020-05-30T23:48:03.619-07:00If your able is love a response. Seriously this ha...If your able is love a response. Seriously this has added sooo much clarity. Its just that Rev 20:10 is like a constant thorn. GOD blessChris Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03108551813041936721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-78852806652565701102020-05-30T23:45:10.385-07:002020-05-30T23:45:10.385-07:00Wow I read all 6 parts of the blog and this practi...Wow I read all 6 parts of the blog and this practically butied the ECT view. My only question is. Why does John say tormented day and night forever and ever if that isnt what he means? I dont get how that is a useful hyperbole. Most if not all of the OT and NT seems to teach ahniliation.But Rev 20:10 doesnt sit well with me to view it as hyperbole. Like of all things to use in hyperbole why that? Its going to force us to conclude being tormented day and night forever and ever meams exactly thatChris Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03108551813041936721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-90807277699366562912017-03-06T03:07:05.190-08:002017-03-06T03:07:05.190-08:00Most annihilationists, including myself, understan...Most annihilationists, including myself, understand that annihilation IS an eternal punishment. We understand "eternal" in the plain sense of literally lasting forever. This is because once God completely and utterly destroys the unrighteous, they remain dead forever. They will never, for all eternity, enjoy the loving presence of God and His gracious rich rewards and the perfect New Heavens and New Earth. Hope this helps. Mark Corbetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11845358650245441477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-6147310308395787532017-03-05T16:10:40.134-08:002017-03-05T16:10:40.134-08:00*uncreated not untreated*uncreated not untreatedThe Rev who doth Cursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13518005141649821791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4546375020443845329.post-72494316972805481592017-03-05T16:09:45.902-08:002017-03-05T16:09:45.902-08:00Interesting stuff. I'm more neoorthodox than e...Interesting stuff. I'm more neoorthodox than evangelical and one thing they did well was define terms. I personally think if we are discussing "eternal" damnation the distinction needs to be held between "eternal" a untreated attribute of God and "forever" a subjective experience of a creation, time. If that distinction holds, and I think it does the second death can be eternal without having infinite temporal duration. It is eternal in that God does it in finality of who he is, at some level, his divinity is shown in who he condemns. Thus that death is now/not yet as salvation and fits that whole cryptic, "to the one who has not what they have is taken away." But I'm also comfortable there as a "would be supra lapsarian if I thought its understanding of time works" double predestinationist.<br /><br />Mileage may very for other viewsThe Rev who doth Cursehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13518005141649821791noreply@blogger.com